Why don't Lopakhin and Barbara ever end up together? Both of them think that marrying the other would not be a bad thing, and Mme Ranevsky is all for it.
GAYEF: Barbara's going to marry him; he's Barbara's young man.
BARBARA: You talk too much, uncle.
MADAME RANEVSKY: Why Barbara, I shall be very glad. He's a nice man. (11).
MADAME RANEVSKY: You know very well, Yermolai Alexeyitch, I always hoped...to see her married to you, and as far as I can see, you're looking out for a wife. She loves you; you life her; and I can't make out why you seem to fight shy of each other.
LOPAKHIN: I don't understand it either, to tell you the truth. It all seems so odd. If there's still time, I'll do it this moment. (46)
But he never does it. He chickens out at the last moment, which is something I wouldn't expect him to do since he normally is quite upfront. And Barbara is always telling Anya that they would be better off if she [Anya] could just marry a rich man. Well, Barbara has an opportunity to marry a rich man here, but she doesn't take it. Do they never end up together because their shyness gets in the way? Or is it something else? - lma-c Mar 5, 2008
Barbara would never ask Lopakhin herself because she is old fashioned. And Lopakhin (to continue the above quote) says, "Let's get it over and have done with it; without you there, I feel as if I should never propose to her." (46) He doesn't seem so shy. He just seems agitated like proposing is a task he has to do; something that he knew had to happen sometime but he was dragging his feet on it. He does tease Barbara with the "get thee to a nunnery, go!" (26) Everyone sort of knows it will happen. To me it seemed like Lopakhin couldn't find the proper segue, considering the timing was sort of awkward and he was cutting down Barbara's family's pride and joy. To me, it seemed like laziness more than anything. Just wasn't really feeling it.
What I don't understand is why Mme Ranevsky still is encouraging Lopakhin and Barbara's marriage. He is already cutting down the cherry orchard, so they can't get it back. Sure, he has money, but Ranevsky doesn't seem like the person who would forgive...after all, she does keep tearing up telegrams of people who have given her much less trouble. - KLe-c Mar 5, 2008
It seems to me that Lopakhin didn’t take that final step because he was lazy and Barbara didn’t present enough opportunity, if that’s the right word. She hasn’t got any money, her family is on extremely hard economic times because of the decisions they’ve made, they just had their cherry orchard foreclosed on, and because she’s adopted, I wonder if any inheritance would come her way if Mme Ranevsky died. She doesn’t offer any economic advantage to marrying her and this is a period in time when marriages were not usually simply made out of love. I also think it would be awkward to have a marriage in which the husband screwed the wife’s family out of their estate that had been in the family for years. Also, she kind of wants to be a nun….I can’t imagine that marrying a person with convent aspirations to be the best marriage material (at least from a guy’s perspective). I think Ranevsky isn’t thinking about forgive and forget in terms of supporting the marriage. I think she sees it as the best available option for Barbara and therefore supports it. - kli-c Mar 5, 2008
I got the impression from the the first mention of the marriage that Lopakhin wasn't too keen on the idea. Madame Ranevsky and Barbara just seem completely desperate to me. When Ranevsky first pushed the idea on Lopakhin, his reaction wasn't too spectacular: "Well, why not? I'm quite willing. She's a very nice girl. [A pause]" (22). Immediately after the awkward pause, Gayef speaks of something completely off topic, and the idea is apparently forgotten. I saw Lopakhin as relatively disinterested the entire time, and I felt that he was just trying to please Madame Ranevsky by giving her a little hope. He gave off the air that he was too good. "Well, why not?"--that is not a very appropriate reaction to such a question. That's what you would say before getting a new haircut, not about the question of marrying someone. Anyways, I think Lopakhin is much too concerned with his rising status and wealth. Finding a wife does not seem to be one of his priorities. Barbara may be shy about it, but Lopakhin definitely is not. He's rather confident actually. - KGa-c Mar 5, 2008
I don't think that Lopakhin is altogether indifferent to the idea of Barbara; it seems like he's thought about it, and maybe even thought favorably of it. And Barbara is too shy and less interested than he is. She seems to be more interested in joining an abbey than marrying Lopakhin. I think that his personality is too strong for her, and it seems inappropriate after he buys their home and cuts down the cherry orchard for them to continue to suggest marriage. Maybe the only reason they are supposedly "destined" to be married is because Madame Ranevsky wants to keep money in the family and realizes that Lopakhin is on his way up and could take interest in her daughter. Anya is too young to marry, and Barbara is starting to get too old to marry, so she wants to get her settled and keep them all in the lives they are accostumed to. I don't think that marriage is in the best interest of either Lopakhin or Barbara, and it seems that while they aren't opposed to the idea or to one another, they aren't enthralled with it either and that's a large part of why they never take action. Barbara is shy, but she is in control of the household so obviously she likes to be in charge to an extent, and although she is shy, it seems that if she were really interested in being with Lopakhin she would have been more proactive in her situation. And Lopakhin is definitely a man of action--he wanted the cherry orchard and he had plans for it, and he saw to his plans being carried out. If they really felt that they should be together, they would have ended up together. - dru-c Mar 5, 2008
For me the relationship between Barbara and Lopakhin was difficult to fully grasp with only the small glimpses we were given. It seemed like Madame Ranevsky was more focused on their marriage than either one of them. I guess it all depends on how you interpret the characters. Lopakhin is either this work-focused, noncommittal man or he is a sleazy jerk. Barbara is either too shy or too pious or unconcerned. They can both be seen as more attached than they actually are or more distant than they actually are. Their characters are certainly open to interpretation by whoever directs it. I guess I feel strange then in trying to interpret their relationship when the characters themselves are such enigmas. Lopakhin seems genuinely concerned about the family, but has no qualms in purchasing their land. Barbara seems shut off from all emotion and then is crying her heart out in the end. Certainly they are allowed their fluctuations, but it makes it harder to place a definitive definition for who they are as the typical characters. They don't fit your general stereotypes. In either case, it is at the very least apparent that Lopakhin and Barbara will not end up getting married. Whatever they actually feel about each other will never be fulfilled. - AHa-c Mar 5, 2008
I agree that it was hard to realize how their relationship really was since we really saw them together. I felt bad for Barbara throughout the whole play because it seemed like she wanted to marry him so much, he just didn't want to take the next step. She was caring for everyone else so I really wanted her relationship with Lopakhin to work out. I agree with KGa that he is too concerned with raising his status than whether or not he wanted to be married to Barbara. Marrying her wouldn't have helped him with his goal of wealth and success, I feel like he used that against her instead of following what he really wanted to do. - kfr-c Mar 10, 2008
The vibe that I got from the story was that Barbara did sincerely want to marry Lopakhin, and while Lopakhin was interested in Barbara, he was not willing to sacrifice hurting his financial situation by marrying her. Their relationship, in a way, was a less dramatic version of the relationship between Sonia and the Doctor in Uncle Vanya. I know that in that instance, the doctor did not care for Sonia, and while I think that Lopakhin did harbor some feelings for Barbara, he also had some of the same indifference towards her that the Doctor felt towards Sonia. Also, one of the major things Lopakhin was trying to do throughout the novel was escape his humble origins as a peasant working under the Ranevsky family--one of the major motivations, besides profit, for cutting down the orchard--and if he married Barbara, he would just become closer to the past that he was so desperately trying to forget. - dsU-c Mar 10, 2008
I think that it is safe to say that Barbara would have wanted to marry Lopakhin, if she had been given the chance. But she seemed to have resigned herself to the fact that it was not going to happen. "He has so much to do; he can't be bothered with me; he hardly takes any notice. Confound the man, I can't bear to see him!" (5) I find it hard to believe she would not want to see him unless she were passionately in love with him. I really don't see how we can debate the fact that she would marry him. So it must be Lopakhin's fault.
I can't see how Lopakhin could have chickened out in Act IV. After all, of all the characters, he is the man of action. If he wants something, he goes after it, as he did with the Cherry Orchard. And I actually don't think he is indifferent towards Barbara either. On page 25, he "defends" her from the Tramp in the road. LOPAKHIN: [Angrily] There's a decency for even indecency to observe. (25) So if he likes her and is not afraid to take action, then what holds him back? I think that a large part of it has to do with what he came from. As he says many times, he was once a peasant. That is a fact of which he is very proud. "I have bought the property where my father and grandfather were slaves, where they weren't even allowed in the kitchen" (38). As a descendant of his family's owners, I think that he cannot marry her out of pride. If he marries her, then he is forever linked to his former servituded. If he marries her, it may look as though he "came into an inheritance" and the land would not really be his. And maybe he wants to keep out the lazy blood of the Ranevsky's. To prove that he is better than his former masters, he must completely displace them, no matter how much he likes Barbara - TRu-c Mar 10, 2008
I don't think that Lopakhin could or should have married Barbara. First of all, he didn't love her, and she didn't love him. They like co-existed, but they never really connected in any of the scenes. So, they probably would have ended up just as unhappy as the old couple in that movie we watched.
I seriously think that there was a reason that Lopakhin didn't ask Barbara to marry him, and I believe that has to do with TRu's last comment abou the serfdom of the previous generations of his family. Lopakhin couldn't marry Barbara because that would be like marrying his slave owners. He wanted to completely wipe out his past and make it forgotten. Barbara would have been a daily reminder of the unhappy past of his family. Thus, to use the theme that serfdom was erased, Lopakhin had to own the estate that his family poured their sweat into with no strings attached. - kva-c Mar 11, 2008
Shyness is definitely part of it, but I'm not sure if that's the only reason why. I mean, L was quite forward about a few things when he intended to be. I think he's got a little issue, because this is certainly a matter of love and passion, and remember, he's a heartless. Well, he just has issues with feeling and anything not tied down to cold logic, so it wouldn't surprise me that he should be so nevous and eventually bail out on his will to have married her. Besides, does he really want to be tied up with that family any longer? He had some respect for Madame R because she'd been nice to him when he was little, but he still kinda dislike that whole class because of all the long years of represssion. So marrying her would also bring him itno that whole thing which he finally thought he'd surpassed. But really, I think the biggest problem is that he hastrouble loving, because i think he too (like others) thinks of himself as above love in a sense - AZU-C Mar 12, 2008
GAYEF: Barbara's going to marry him; he's Barbara's young man.
BARBARA: You talk too much, uncle.
MADAME RANEVSKY: Why Barbara, I shall be very glad. He's a nice man. (11).
MADAME RANEVSKY: You know very well, Yermolai Alexeyitch, I always hoped...to see her married to you, and as far as I can see, you're looking out for a wife. She loves you; you life her; and I can't make out why you seem to fight shy of each other.
LOPAKHIN: I don't understand it either, to tell you the truth. It all seems so odd. If there's still time, I'll do it this moment. (46)
But he never does it. He chickens out at the last moment, which is something I wouldn't expect him to do since he normally is quite upfront. And Barbara is always telling Anya that they would be better off if she [Anya] could just marry a rich man. Well, Barbara has an opportunity to marry a rich man here, but she doesn't take it. Do they never end up together because their shyness gets in the way? Or is it something else? -
Barbara would never ask Lopakhin herself because she is old fashioned. And Lopakhin (to continue the above quote) says, "Let's get it over and have done with it; without you there, I feel as if I should never propose to her." (46) He doesn't seem so shy. He just seems agitated like proposing is a task he has to do; something that he knew had to happen sometime but he was dragging his feet on it. He does tease Barbara with the "get thee to a nunnery, go!" (26) Everyone sort of knows it will happen. To me it seemed like Lopakhin couldn't find the proper segue, considering the timing was sort of awkward and he was cutting down Barbara's family's pride and joy. To me, it seemed like laziness more than anything. Just wasn't really feeling it.
What I don't understand is why Mme Ranevsky still is encouraging Lopakhin and Barbara's marriage. He is already cutting down the cherry orchard, so they can't get it back. Sure, he has money, but Ranevsky doesn't seem like the person who would forgive...after all, she does keep tearing up telegrams of people who have given her much less trouble. -
It seems to me that Lopakhin didn’t take that final step because he was lazy and Barbara didn’t present enough opportunity, if that’s the right word. She hasn’t got any money, her family is on extremely hard economic times because of the decisions they’ve made, they just had their cherry orchard foreclosed on, and because she’s adopted, I wonder if any inheritance would come her way if Mme Ranevsky died. She doesn’t offer any economic advantage to marrying her and this is a period in time when marriages were not usually simply made out of love. I also think it would be awkward to have a marriage in which the husband screwed the wife’s family out of their estate that had been in the family for years. Also, she kind of wants to be a nun….I can’t imagine that marrying a person with convent aspirations to be the best marriage material (at least from a guy’s perspective). I think Ranevsky isn’t thinking about forgive and forget in terms of supporting the marriage. I think she sees it as the best available option for Barbara and therefore supports it.
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I got the impression from the the first mention of the marriage that Lopakhin wasn't too keen on the idea. Madame Ranevsky and Barbara just seem completely desperate to me. When Ranevsky first pushed the idea on Lopakhin, his reaction wasn't too spectacular: "Well, why not? I'm quite willing. She's a very nice girl. [A pause]" (22). Immediately after the awkward pause, Gayef speaks of something completely off topic, and the idea is apparently forgotten. I saw Lopakhin as relatively disinterested the entire time, and I felt that he was just trying to please Madame Ranevsky by giving her a little hope. He gave off the air that he was too good. "Well, why not?"--that is not a very appropriate reaction to such a question. That's what you would say before getting a new haircut, not about the question of marrying someone. Anyways, I think Lopakhin is much too concerned with his rising status and wealth. Finding a wife does not seem to be one of his priorities. Barbara may be shy about it, but Lopakhin definitely is not. He's rather confident actually.
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I don't think that Lopakhin is altogether indifferent to the idea of Barbara; it seems like he's thought about it, and maybe even thought favorably of it. And Barbara is too shy and less interested than he is. She seems to be more interested in joining an abbey than marrying Lopakhin. I think that his personality is too strong for her, and it seems inappropriate after he buys their home and cuts down the cherry orchard for them to continue to suggest marriage. Maybe the only reason they are supposedly "destined" to be married is because Madame Ranevsky wants to keep money in the family and realizes that Lopakhin is on his way up and could take interest in her daughter. Anya is too young to marry, and Barbara is starting to get too old to marry, so she wants to get her settled and keep them all in the lives they are accostumed to. I don't think that marriage is in the best interest of either Lopakhin or Barbara, and it seems that while they aren't opposed to the idea or to one another, they aren't enthralled with it either and that's a large part of why they never take action. Barbara is shy, but she is in control of the household so obviously she likes to be in charge to an extent, and although she is shy, it seems that if she were really interested in being with Lopakhin she would have been more proactive in her situation. And Lopakhin is definitely a man of action--he wanted the cherry orchard and he had plans for it, and he saw to his plans being carried out. If they really felt that they should be together, they would have ended up together. -
For me the relationship between Barbara and Lopakhin was difficult to fully grasp with only the small glimpses we were given. It seemed like Madame Ranevsky was more focused on their marriage than either one of them. I guess it all depends on how you interpret the characters. Lopakhin is either this work-focused, noncommittal man or he is a sleazy jerk. Barbara is either too shy or too pious or unconcerned. They can both be seen as more attached than they actually are or more distant than they actually are. Their characters are certainly open to interpretation by whoever directs it. I guess I feel strange then in trying to interpret their relationship when the characters themselves are such enigmas. Lopakhin seems genuinely concerned about the family, but has no qualms in purchasing their land. Barbara seems shut off from all emotion and then is crying her heart out in the end. Certainly they are allowed their fluctuations, but it makes it harder to place a definitive definition for who they are as the typical characters. They don't fit your general stereotypes. In either case, it is at the very least apparent that Lopakhin and Barbara will not end up getting married. Whatever they actually feel about each other will never be fulfilled. -
I agree that it was hard to realize how their relationship really was since we really saw them together. I felt bad for Barbara throughout the whole play because it seemed like she wanted to marry him so much, he just didn't want to take the next step. She was caring for everyone else so I really wanted her relationship with Lopakhin to work out. I agree with KGa that he is too concerned with raising his status than whether or not he wanted to be married to Barbara. Marrying her wouldn't have helped him with his goal of wealth and success, I feel like he used that against her instead of following what he really wanted to do. -
The vibe that I got from the story was that Barbara did sincerely want to marry Lopakhin, and while Lopakhin was interested in Barbara, he was not willing to sacrifice hurting his financial situation by marrying her. Their relationship, in a way, was a less dramatic version of the relationship between Sonia and the Doctor in Uncle Vanya. I know that in that instance, the doctor did not care for Sonia, and while I think that Lopakhin did harbor some feelings for Barbara, he also had some of the same indifference towards her that the Doctor felt towards Sonia. Also, one of the major things Lopakhin was trying to do throughout the novel was escape his humble origins as a peasant working under the Ranevsky family--one of the major motivations, besides profit, for cutting down the orchard--and if he married Barbara, he would just become closer to the past that he was so desperately trying to forget.
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I think that it is safe to say that Barbara would have wanted to marry Lopakhin, if she had been given the chance. But she seemed to have resigned herself to the fact that it was not going to happen. "He has so much to do; he can't be bothered with me; he hardly takes any notice. Confound the man, I can't bear to see him!" (5) I find it hard to believe she would not want to see him unless she were passionately in love with him. I really don't see how we can debate the fact that she would marry him. So it must be Lopakhin's fault.
I can't see how Lopakhin could have chickened out in Act IV. After all, of all the characters, he is the man of action. If he wants something, he goes after it, as he did with the Cherry Orchard. And I actually don't think he is indifferent towards Barbara either. On page 25, he "defends" her from the Tramp in the road. LOPAKHIN: [Angrily] There's a decency for even indecency to observe. (25) So if he likes her and is not afraid to take action, then what holds him back? I think that a large part of it has to do with what he came from. As he says many times, he was once a peasant. That is a fact of which he is very proud. "I have bought the property where my father and grandfather were slaves, where they weren't even allowed in the kitchen" (38). As a descendant of his family's owners, I think that he cannot marry her out of pride. If he marries her, then he is forever linked to his former servituded. If he marries her, it may look as though he "came into an inheritance" and the land would not really be his. And maybe he wants to keep out the lazy blood of the Ranevsky's. To prove that he is better than his former masters, he must completely displace them, no matter how much he likes Barbara -
I don't think that Lopakhin could or should have married Barbara. First of all, he didn't love her, and she didn't love him. They like co-existed, but they never really connected in any of the scenes. So, they probably would have ended up just as unhappy as the old couple in that movie we watched.
I seriously think that there was a reason that Lopakhin didn't ask Barbara to marry him, and I believe that has to do with TRu's last comment abou the serfdom of the previous generations of his family. Lopakhin couldn't marry Barbara because that would be like marrying his slave owners. He wanted to completely wipe out his past and make it forgotten. Barbara would have been a daily reminder of the unhappy past of his family. Thus, to use the theme that serfdom was erased, Lopakhin had to own the estate that his family poured their sweat into with no strings attached.
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Shyness is definitely part of it, but I'm not sure if that's the only reason why. I mean, L was quite forward about a few things when he intended to be. I think he's got a little issue, because this is certainly a matter of love and passion, and remember, he's a heartless. Well, he just has issues with feeling and anything not tied down to cold logic, so it wouldn't surprise me that he should be so nevous and eventually bail out on his will to have married her. Besides, does he really want to be tied up with that family any longer? He had some respect for Madame R because she'd been nice to him when he was little, but he still kinda dislike that whole class because of all the long years of represssion. So marrying her would also bring him itno that whole thing which he finally thought he'd surpassed. But really, I think the biggest problem is that he hastrouble loving, because i think he too (like others) thinks of himself as above love in a sense -